COACH FORUM: Questions about training
PPF coach Emma Briggs here. I'll be here for the next couple of days answering general questions you have about training during these unprecedented times.
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Hi Emma,
I have a question about low RPM intervals. I don't have a smart trainer, so I'm limited in how much power I can generate at low RPM because I run out of gears. I can typically hit about 175 W @ 42 RPM, which was fine given my prior FTP. If I tried to pedal slower (say, down to 40 RPM) my power would drop off significantly. After taking the FTP test today, my threshold power increased from 217 W to 271 W, which means my target power in a similar workout would be significantly higher.
When I can't hit the lowest RPM at the target power because I run out of gears, should I just pedal as slowly as possible to hit the target power in that interval (e.g. increase RPM from 40 to 45 only on the given interval, while leaving the others the same), or should I raise the RPM for all intervals so that I can hit my target power on the slowest interval (e.g. raise all intervals 5 to 10 RPM) and maintain the pyramid? Or maybe there's something else that is best?
Thanks,
Greg
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Hi Emma, I done the Bike FTP Zwift Ramp Test this morning. The last test I done was the Zwift 20 min test a month ago. 2 questions
1- how do you calculate FTP HR for the Ramp up test?
2- today’s test was 23 watts less than my last test. Should I use today’s new FTP going forward vs my old number? My training load has not changed besides the not swimming so I was little shocked my FTP number when down so much. I don’t think I was tiered going into the test. -
Hi Darren. Unfortunately, it's not possible to calculate threshold HR from the ramp test. You can only do this from the 20 min test or from another prolonged effort around threshold. Due to the way the tests work, it is possible to get very different results from them. Since we have not been doing a lot of high intensity work over the last few months, it's likely that your top end system is not well developed at the moment so I would disregard today's number and continue using the number from your previous 20 min test, especially if it has felt "right" for most of the recent bike workouts.
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Hi Greg. Nice work on that big increase in FTP! I'm going to have to make a couple of assumptions here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that you have a power meter on your bike and are either using a trainer with resistance on the rear wheel (like a Kinetic trainer) or some kind of rollers (like the Feedback Sports trainers). I'm surprised that you're running out of gears but I understand how that can happen. If you have a resistance trainer, then I would try increasing the resistance on the rear wheel if possible. To answer your question though, your first option is best. Just increase the rpm a little as necessary for those intervals where you can't hit both the power and the rpm instructions and leave the others as prescribed. And remember that the key to all these low cadence workouts is maintaining great form at those low rpm :-)
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Emma
Great Q&A Office Hours--thank you! Like you mentioned yesterday, I too am a big fan of outdoor rides. So when TP calls for a 1:25ish ride on Zwift, what would you consider the equivalent amount of time outside? Perhaps a ratio? You can assume about 2,000 feet of climbing per 50 miles or so, unless focused on more elevation gains. Here's a sample where we worked hard in spots and jibber-jabbered in others https://www.strava.com/activities/3163051350
Thanks,
Cruise Director Jeff
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Hi Emma,
Your assumptions are correct. I have Garmin Vector power pedals and I use a Kinetic fluid trainer. The only way to add resistance is to tighten the roller on the tire. As far as I know, the standard is to tighten it by turning the knob 3 full turns and not to add more than 5 turns. I typically do 3 turns, as I fear damaging my wheel or bike by tightening it too much. Should I try tightening more the roller more or is my concern legit?
Also, if a pyramid is something like 55/50/45/40/45/50/55 and I can't hit the target RPM any lower than 47 RPM, does it make sense at this point to adjust the whole pyramid to 60/55/50/47/50/55/60 or should I just raise the lower bound as you mentioned and do something like 55/50/47/47/47/50/55?
Thanks for all your help!
Greg
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Hi again Greg.
I would tighten the roller more. If it says it can go up to five turns then I would do that. You won't damage the bike or the wheel at the wattages you mentioned but there will be more wear and tear on the tire. If you don't already have a trainer tire then I would suggest getting one. They're made of a softer rubber and designed specifically for trainer use. Note though that some trainer tires shouldn't be used outside so if you're also using that bike (or at least that rear wheel) outside then you'll need to change the tire (or wheel if you have another one) for outside rides. Or look for a trainer tire that can also be used outside.
For the pyramid, just raise the lower bound as I said before, even if that gives you multiple intervals at the same cadence. We're more interested in getting in the work at the lower end of the range than in the differential in cadence between each interval.
Emma.
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Hi Jeff (Jefflipschultz),
Thanks for joining the Office Hours yesterday and helping to get the discussion rolling. Glad you enjoyed it. With regard to the outdoor equivalent for Zwift rides, for the midweek rides 75-90 minutes outside is good in place of a 60-90 minute trainer ride. If you're lucky enough to have more time and want to ride for longer then going up to 2 hours with extra easier aerobic (Z2) work is totally fine too. For the weekend rides, anywhere from 2-3.5 hours is good. If we were heading into race season at this point, then I would be suggesting 2.5-3 hour outdoor rides on the weekend for anyone with a 70.3 or full IM race coming up within a couple of months. The key thing is to take the "intent" of the trainer workout and apply it smartly outside. Since many of the weekend trainer rides just mimic some Z3/Z3+ climbing with some Z2 aerobic work they translate pretty well to an outside endurance ride. The intervals don't need to be followed exactly (if at all) and the type of work (e.g. climbing at 65 rpm) can just be included in the ride. The only thing I would really caution against is doing a group "race ride" every weekend (not that these are possible right now anyway!). These are good occasionally but shouldn't be a staple of our training.
I'm not giving you an explicit ratio because it's not really that simple! What's important is how you use that time in the saddle. We try to limit trainer time to 1.5-2 hours max except in exceptional circumstances but longer outside rides are definitely necessary in long distance triathlon training,
Hope this is helpful!
Emma.
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Hi Emma,
I have a follow-up question to the discussion on outdoor rides. For those of us who do primarily off-road triathlons, do you have any suggestions on tweaking the rides in our baseline plan? How should we balance being on the mountain bike versus road or trainer rides where it is easier to perform given intervals?
Thanks!
Jen
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Hi Emma,
Living in Israel, the time difference really doesn't allow for me to be on the live office hours, so I just listened yesterday and wanted to thank you! My big race is in November as well (70.3 world champs in NZ) and I have similar feelings re the ebb and flow of motivation...(except that unfortunately I am among those who are ashamedly grateful for having an excuse not to swim :-( ). Just wanted to let you know that you inspired me to go out and ride my mountain bike on the lovely singletrack near my house - and I came back so, so much happier. So again - thank you! (By the way, I hope you get to Croatia - we were there for 2 weeks in October and it was amazing!). Be well, Jill
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Hi Jen (Jennifer Higgins)
As a fellow off road triathlete who has transitioned from IM racing over the last few years this is a question to which I have given a lot of thought and an area in which I have undertaken some experimentation! The answer varies depending on a few factors though: where you live (i.e. weather, access to trails etc); your goals; and your relative strengths and weaknesses of mountain bike skills vs general bike fitness. I came from a background of strong bike fitness but limited mountain biking skills so my focus has been on spending time on my mountain bike to improve my skills (which is what costs me most time in races). As a general rule of thumb, I would:
- replace the weekend trainer ride with a longer outside MTB ride
- make any low rpm workout a priority but you have a few options: do it on the trainer OR integrate it into an MTB or road ride which has some long, sustained climbing over a consistent grade OR do it as hill repeats on the MTB or on the road
- replace the prep ride or other aerobic work with an easier MTB ride
- do any shorter, harder interval work on the trainer
- do any easy recovery ride on either the trainer or road bike. It's very hard to do an actual Z1 recovery ride on the MTB.
In terms of time on the road vs MTB, longer road rides definitely still have their place. You can put in more time with less stress on the body which is helpful to building fitness. And if your limiter is bike fitness, rather than MTB skills, then I would err more towards doing the workouts as written and spending more time on the road bike and trainer. Another great option (if it's available to you) is to replace any high intensity bike workout on your plan with a local MTB race. Obviously that's no good for now but will be a good option again in the future :-)
I hope this is helpful. I would be happy to discuss in more detail for your specific situation in a 1-1 consult if you like too.
Emma.
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Hi Jill (Jillbendor)
Thanks so much for the feedback. So glad it was valuable to you and you had a great ride! It's ok to stray from the plan and just have fun riding, especially now :-)
Emma.
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Hi Emma,
Thanks so much for the feedback! It's so nice to talk with fellow off-road athletes. I live in upstate NY and very close to good trails, but conditions are hit and miss in the spring depending on rain.
I feel like a fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum in regards to bike fitness vs MTB skills. While I am a strong climber, I struggle quiet a bit with the low rpm trainer sessions we have been doing. I've definitely noted improvement, but I feel much more comfortable with a high cadence. I will plan on keeping our hard Wednesday trainer ride and transition to a long MTB on the weekend, and then fit in other rides depending on daylight/weather. I agree it is hard to do true Z1 training on the mountain bike, at least on the hilly trails we have here!
I might take you up on the 1:1 consult in a few weeks after settling into a routine with this new baseline plan. I have two XTERRAs in Canada in July if we are racing by then...
Cheers!
Jen
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Hi Jen (Jennifer Higgins),
Glad this was helpful. I would definitely keep making those low rpm workouts a priority. It sounds like you will really benefit from both the strength and fitness that those workouts provide. Happy trails :-)
Emma.
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