COACH FORUM: Pacing Using the Artery Swims
Matt & John will be tackling any and all questions related to last week's Artery swim. Specifically, we'd like to discuss what to look for when it comes to hitting prescribed intensity, and how does one properly "pace" anyway.....
The session:
20 x 75 as:
5 - 75s at 70% effort on 10 sec rest
5 - 75s at 80% effort on 10 sec rest
5 - 75s at 90% effort on 10 sec rest
5 - 75s at BEST effort on 10 sec rest
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Official comment
All -
Thank you for your participation. This thread is now closed. Should you wish to follow up or ask any other questions. Please book a coach consult.
Cheers,
Matt, John, and the PP Team
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I'd add to that, not just variation within each block, but variation/difference from block to block? Are we talking :02/100yds? Again, it's relative, but looking for general picture. I'm also assuming there will be some decent variation within each block, but the AVERAGE of each block can be compared.
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- Are there recommended pace spreads among the 4 blocks based on various of best effort paces (1:10, 1:20, 1:30, etc)
- What are recommended tactical goals for improving the next time? I.e., what are specific things one can approach to improve vs just saying "I'll pace better next time"?
- Is there anything quantitatively meaningful about the numbers 70%, 80%, and 90% or they are just there to say: "get faster each time"?
- How will this transition to the 20x100s? Will there likely be a step back in pace or objective is to try to hold onto the last 75 paces and that'll show improvement.
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Hi Coaches, the pool that I swim at is most of the times 50 meters (sometimes they make it short course) so I did this workout as 50's. ended up with 2900 yards total of swim distance.
Should I repeat it? I don't always now when they have short course. In addition, I only saw a couple of seconds or a second difference when I 'supposedly" increased the intensity. I felt like I was swimming faster but times didn't reflect it. So was this fatigue settling in and this is why the effort felt greater? Thank you. Appreciate your feedback always.
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"If you are pacing correctly, how much variation in time/100yd would you expect to see during each block of the 75s?
I know there are a lot of variables to consider. But assume for an average middle of the pack swimmer with good general fitness."
Brian-
Assuming your avg swim threshold 100 pace is 1:20 sec per 100 y I would like to see something along these lines
5 x 75 holding 1:15
5 x 75 holding 1:10
5 x 75 holding 1:05
5 x 75 Best avg holding between :57-1:00
To bring in Jeff's comment: Globally- success is being able to execute 5 sets within the sets, where each block gets faster, and you don't blow up, and are able to step down somewhat evenly and be able to arrive at the last 5 swims....not entirely gased, and able to hit 5 hard swims, faster than the other 15..
Of course there will be variation, but what we often see is something like this:
5 x 75 at 105
5 x 75 at 104
5 x 75 at 104
5 x 75 at 108
You can see the swimmer doesnt really have an "easy" pace here and goes out too hard, can't drop pace, and can't even sustain the pace they began the set at.
Hint: If you had to take extra rest between the swims, or extra rest between sets....this means you paced this poorly, and overshot what sustainable pace was.
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Gineth Mendez-Yibirin -
No need to repeat the session, it will come back around. Next time, if you show up to do this session and your pool is set up as 25 meters, you can do the prescribed 75's. If it's set up as 50 meters, you can make an early jump in the progression and do 100's instead of 75's. Doing 50's the first time was fine and it seems provided a good lesson in pacing. Look to Matt's post above as he does a great job talking about how to pace within this set.
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- Are there recommended pace spreads among the 4 blocks based on various of best effort paces (1:10, 1:20, 1:30, etc)
- What are recommended tactical goals for improving the next time? I.e., what are specific things one can approach to improve vs just saying "I'll pace better next time"?
- Is there anything quantitatively meaningful about the numbers 70%, 80%, and 90% or they are just there to say: "get faster each time"?
- How will this transition to the 20x100s? Will there likely be a step back in pace or objective is to try to hold onto the last 75 paces and that'll show improvement.
David,
Great questions. I'll try and tick them off 1 by 1.
1: This is all about pacing and energy management. I would say 95% of our athletes struggle to drop pace in a linear and progressive manner...which is why we do this set....So long as each block is faster than the last block of 5, and your last 5 swims are all your fastest compared to the previous 15 swims you're doing well, and whether you drop by 1 sec per block, or 5. It's that you can actually manage 5 different pacing efforts, and finish the last 5 swims...as your best. No easy task
2: Pace better next time :) Joking aside, I return to the concept above, Pacing and energy management. We do these swims at camp, and nearly every swimmer, even those who have come to multiple camps...fail. Pacing better is the entire goal of this swim...... This is a very challenging thing for athletes to master. So in terms of specifics, I would need more details. Did you drop pace each set of 5? Were your last 5 swims your best? Was pacing fairly even? Did you need to take extra rest?
3: Just as zones are an imperfect way to designate intensity for bike and run, so are %'s in swims. We use it as a common language around intensity. They are meaningful in that we use them often, we prescribe them consistently and hopefully we begin to speak the same language. My larger commentary would be that it's very challenging for athletes to have varied speeds outside of an easy, medium, hard..range. So the more you can develop multiple gears and speeds and deploy them the better a swimmer you will be.
4: The point of the artery sessions isn't always to show progression...but rather mastery of a session that is repeatable and familiar. That being said, of course we want to see progress, but that progress might be better aimed at perfect pacing next time through- and I'd actually point 95% of athletes in that direction. When we roll into 20x100 the progression is the same building fashion. Obviously it's a longer session so I wouldn't expect you to be able to hit your same pace or better in the final swims. This likely will require a pace adjustment on athletes' parts to start with. Just as if you were running a 5k you would pace it differently than a mile. Success might be great pacing, or it might be maintaining that same pace over the final 100s as you held for the 75s.
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Great responses, thank you. I have a couple of other general questions:
- Are are a few tricks/hacks to keep track of the all the 75s/100s? I suppose this helps the Masterpiece 25s too because there are so many.
- Is there a recommended amount of rest between the pre-main and the 20s? Should we be sufficiently rested (couple of minutes after the premain) to challenge us to go easy on the first set or just start the 20s after about 15-30s after the premain?
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How much consideration should we put into the cadence used at the different effort levels as a measurement towards the % effort? Reason for the question is that as I increase to the next % level, it seems my effort comes through more in the strength of the pull, rather than an increase in cadence. I think this falls in line with your comment that it is pacing and "energy management." My times do improve at each effort interval but cadence increase is minimal and in most cases negligible. I'm curious to know if a concentrated effort should be applied to increase cadence rather than the amount of effort I am putting towards the strength of the arm pull.
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Two questions on this in addition to the great ones already asked....
- I saw in an earlier comment that Matt Hurley used a threshold 1:20/100 pace as an example and the first set was at 1:15. So we should be starting off the first set FASTER than our regular endurance pace, and further increasing speed from there? (I'm assuming the 1:15 was pace, not time taken to do the 75)
- Is there a recommended way to adjust the artery (or even regular) sessions if you're not able to do it as written? E.g. I struggle with cardio so for the 75's I wound up extending the rest (15-20 seconds instead of 10) so I could complete the whole thing. But I've gotten some conflicting info on whether it's better to add rest or just reduce the set and/or rep length. Is one way better than the other or does it not matter as long as I'm working toward the goal of successfully doing the session as written?
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David,
1. As far as counting goes, it's sometimes easier to break it down into more manageable chunks. With the 20's, focusing on just one set of 5 at a time. You can do the same thing with the masterpiece 25's and other similar sets. I know some people will try and mark it off using rings on the lane line or using a watch but I would suggest getting comfortable finding a way to count on your own.
2. Take a minute and collect yourself before the main set. Prepare for what's to come and be ready to approach it the right way. No need to jump right into it with only 30 sec rest
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"Hint: If you had to take extra rest between the swims, or extra rest between sets....this means you paced this poorly, and overshot what sustainable pace was. " -Matthew Hurley.
Ding ding ding. This is me. To start, I'm a terrible swimmer. But I was pleased I was able to finish this swim, and even achieved some marked decreases in pace as the blocks increased from 70%, to 80, to 90, to all out. That said, I had to take longer than 10 second rests, especially in the 90% and all out blocks. Should I repeat this workout and pace better (slower) so I can keep the rests to 10 seconds, or just chalk this up to a learning experience and see how I can improve next go 'round? Thank you.
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"How much consideration should we put into the cadence used at the different effort levels as a measurement towards the % effort?"
Jason,
Great question. There are only two ways to swim faster. 1: increasing stroke rate 2: increasing force and distance per stroke.
With this in mind, you're spot on. Often we will see negligible increases in SR as speed goes up, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Especially as distances go up...100 and beyond...minimal increases in stroke rate can increase fatigue, so it's important to find that comfort level. Where are you most efficient? Target that. It doesn't mean you don't work on increasing stroke rate, or developing more of a comfortable range, but I would say...don't throw another monkey into the mix with this session. Be aware, but this isnt the time to deploy increasing stroke rates like other sessions where we call for it. Stick to pacing, but again...awareness of where you're at is always a good thing.
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- I saw in an earlier comment that Matt Hurley used a threshold 1:20/100 pace as an example and the first set was at 1:15. So we should be starting off the first set FASTER than our regular endurance pace, and further increasing speed from there? (I'm assuming the 1:15 was pace, not time taken to do the 75)
Tiger,
Quick clarifying point. 1:15 was my guess for the first round. Arriving on 1:15..leaving 10 secs later. You would end the set at your threshold "pace" ~1:20 which would be ~60 seconds for the 75.
"Is there a recommended way to adjust the artery (or even regular) sessions if you're not able to do it as written? E.g. I struggle with cardio so for the 75's I wound up extending the rest (15-20 seconds instead of 10) so I could complete the whole thing"
I would keep the intervals the same! so 20 seconds rest is ok...but keep that consistent next time. Once you can execute this you can adjust the rest times.
Goal :
1: Master pacing using consistent send-off, or rest times.
2: Once you master pacing, then you can think about hitting "faster" times
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This might have been answered somewhere but how do you figure out your base so apply what your 70%,80%, 90% pace is? Or is it totally on feel?
Darren,
70% is more effort-based than actual Base +/-...this is because we want people thinking about energy management across varying distances.
70% of 1 x 100 might be 1:30 for an athlete..but 20 x 100 holding 130 might be 95% for that same athlete
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All,
Here's an intensity chart we use with our team which I think might be helpful. The first is a percentage, then RPE ( rate of perceived exertion) with following descriptors
PPF . % . RPE . Description Application
Easy
<70%
2-5.5
Recovery and social pace
Active recovery. Warmup, cool down and easier work. Aerobic development and recovery
Endurance
70-75%
5.5-7
Endurance: Conversational
Endurance, aerobic development, lower stress.
Steady---Strong
80-85%
7-8
Strong, but not breathless
Steady, tempo, stronger, sustainable work below threshold. Most athletes race pace is upper Z3
Strong---Very strong
90-95%
8-9
All focus must go into sustained effort
Threshold, lactate accumulation
Hard
Fast
9-10
Hard effort without losing form
Anerobic capacity, V02. Extreme duress, intervals less than 6 mins
Max
Max
10+
Short explosive max efforts
Maximal power, over recruitment, nueromuscualr devlopment. Less than 30 seconds
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